Ask Jonathan Breeden Anything: Custody Across State Lines

Jonathan Breeden: [00:00:00] On this week’s episode of The Best of Johnston County Podcast, we have a special edition episode. Ask Jonathan Breeden Anything and in this episode, myself, Jonathan Breeden and our social media coordinator, Raena Burch, discuss multi-state custody jurisdictions.

One state does have jurisdiction to enter custody order. What state can modify a custody order after the child has left the state? And what do multi-state custody orders look like? Do you have to take the kid to the airport? Do you have to fly and pick the kid up? How far would you have to drive to meet somebody halfway before the court might say, you know what? It’s better to fly. If you’ve thought about these questions or had these questions. This podcast answers a lot of them, so listen in.

Welcome to another episode of Best of Johnston County, brought to you by Breeden Law Office. Our host, Jonathan Breeden, an experienced family lawyer with a deep connection to the community, is ready to take you on a journey through the area that he has called home for over 20 years. Whether it’s a deep dive [00:01:00] into the love locals have for the county or unraveling the complexities of family law, Best of Johnston County presents an authentic slice of this unique community.

Jonathan Breeden: Hello and welcome to another edition of The Best of Johnston County Podcast. I’m your host, Jonathan Breeden, and on today’s episode, we’re having a special edition episode that we like to call Ask Jonathan Breeden Anything. On most of our episodes, I, Jonathan Breeden interview, interesting community leaders, small business owners, and people that just love Johnston County to tell you about why they love Johnston County and what they do to assist the citizens of this county.

We also do elected officials, stuff like that. But on these special edition episodes, our social media coordinator, Raena Burch, asked me, Jonathan Breeden about family law questions in North Carolina. The Breeden Law Office, which I own and founded does provide family law services to people in North Carolina.

So I talk a little bit about just different questions that we get every week as we represent families in our [00:02:00] area going through separation and divorce. But before we get to this week’s questions, which I think deal with multi-state jurisdiction and moving your child out of state, I would like you to like, follow, subscribe to this podcast wherever you’re seeing, whether it be on Apple, YouTube, Spotify, LinkedIn, TikTok, X, Instagram, or any of the other social media channels of The Best of Johnston County Podcast. The Best of Johnston County Podcast comes out every Monday and has now for well over 20 months.

So go back and listen to some of our previous episodes if you would like. We’ve interviewed the vast majority of the county commissioners, Congressman Brad Knott Tim Sims, local dentist. Just a lot of really interesting people and I think you’ll find it interesting fascinating. I’ve enjoyed doing this podcast.

I’ve learned so much about the citizens of our county and so many great things about our county, and we’re gonna continue doing that because our goal is to put out as much positive information about Johnston County as we can through this podcast. Welcome, Raena.

Raena Burch: [00:03:00] Hi, how are you?

Jonathan Breeden: I’m doing good.

Raena Burch: Yeah. All right.

So we’ve got some questions that a lot of people have for whenever there’s parents living in different states and they have to do their custody across state lines.

Jonathan Breeden: Okay.

Raena Burch: So the first one is. How do custody and visitation work when across state lines?

Jonathan Breeden: Well I mean, I guess, it depends if you have people living in different states and they don’t already have an order.

Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: I mean, there’s all these, you know how it goes right now, but we can, we can do 20 different examples here. Right. But you know, in general if you have parents living in different states and there’s not already a court order, and one parent starts to think, I might need to get a court order, make sure that I can see my child and have legal rights to my child, then either parent can file a custody action where the child has resided the previous six months. And the court. that’s,

Raena Burch: That’s important.

Jonathan Breeden: That’s important. And [00:04:00] I know you’re gonna ask me a little bit about the Uniform Child Custody Act, which is how that comes from. And, but just in general. And then the court will, like it does in every other custody situation.

Look at where everybody’s living. How the child’s doing and determine what is in the best interest of the child as to what, where the child lives, which state the child lives in.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: And what the visitation schedule between the parents will be moving forward given that they don’t live in the same state.

So it’s not going to be 50 50

Raena Burch: mm-hmm

Jonathan Breeden: if the child is already in school and it’s not going to be really any kind of joint physical either.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: When they don’t live in the same place, but they are gonna try to craft as much time as possible for the parent. That’s out of, that’s not where the child is it’s in the other state from the child.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: From the child’s primary custodian.

Raena Burch: Yes. Yes. And to that point, I mean, you could still live in the same state and be hours apart and you know, on North Carolina’s, you know, this big up and [00:05:00] down, but very long, you know that. So if even if they still live in the same state, it still might be kind of the same deal.

Jonathan Breeden: Correct.

Raena Burch: If they live hours apart.

Jonathan Breeden: Correct.

Raena Burch: Okay. So number two, you already kind of mentioned this, but what is the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Act?

Jonathan Breeden: Okay. The Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Act is the act that 49 of the 50 states have adopted to determine which states have custody jurisdiction as a child to determine the child’s home state.

Okay. The key word is home state.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: And the home state has the ability to make custody decisions for the child and modify the child’s custody decisions. So the home state is defined as where the child has been the previous six months before the action commences initially.

Raena Burch: Got it.

Jonathan Breeden: And that is the state that would’ve, the home state jurisdiction to start with. The [00:06:00] state that issues an order now. Now that’s to file it. Now the home state jurisdiction doesn’t actually attach and become binding until that state enters an order. A temporary custody order. Permanent custody order that says. We are the home state and we are gonna make this decision, and this is in the best interest of the child.

If you start it, but then the child moves away and you don’t get in order. Then it’s the first state to enter an order when the child has been in that state six months. I’ve had that happen three or four times in my career, so I now add that as a caveat when I’m asked this question.

Raena Burch: Yes. Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: The state has to enter an order, but it gets started.

The initially where the child has been, the case then stays in that home state until all parties have left the state. Not just the child.

Raena Burch: Oh, okay.

Jonathan Breeden: It’s all parties have left the state. So, or the state has declined to [00:07:00] exercise further jurisdiction because they believe the evidence of the child’s wellbeing is more likely found in another state.

Raena Burch: Got it.

Jonathan Breeden: So an example, you and I go through a divorce.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: You live in South Carolina? I live in North Carolina. We file the case in North Carolina because that’s where we are when we separate. You move to South Carolina, the judge grants you custody in South Carolina of the child. The case stays in North Carolina because I’m still in North Carolina.

If we need to modify it, we come back to the North Carolina court and the North County Court will modify it however they deem fit, even though the child lives in South Carolina after five or six years of the child living in South Carolina. You could file a motion with the court and say, court, I know that the father still lives in North Carolina, but I want you to release the jurisdiction because the evidence of the child’s wellbeing is in South Carolina.

Child goes to school in South Carolina, child goes doctor in South Carolina. [00:08:00] Everything. At this point,

Raena Burch: primary custodial parent lives in South Carolina,

Jonathan Breeden: but it’s, it’s in South Carolina and it would be better for the witnesses for this case to be in South Carolina and the court could release the jurisdiction.

Or not. Most of the time they would still say no, but sometimes they would say yes.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Now the other thing that happens is with this, if I then leave the state and I move to Florida and you’re in South Carolina, once I’m out of the state of North Carolina, there’s no party still in North Carolina.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: So North Carolina still technically has jurisdiction, but another K state. Where the child has been the previous six months prior to the motion being filed, which in this case would be South Carolina.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: South Carolina could then take jurisdiction, home state jurisdiction if it finds that nobody is left in North Carolina.

Raena Burch: Got it.

Jonathan Breeden: And we deal with this every day in the Breeden Law Office because we represent people in Harnett County [00:09:00] and Fort Bragg in the military.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: And so we’ve kind of become experts at it because the military sends you wherever the military wants to send you.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And we deal with a lot of this in our office.

And of course as Raleigh has become more of a international city and people move here

Raena Burch: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: every day from around the country. This is one of the fastest growing areas Johnston County, Raleigh, Wake County, Harnett County. We deal with a lot of orders from other states. The child’s not here. The orders in another state.

You know, sometimes we don’t know where the other parent is.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You know, we can’t absolutely prove that other parent’s not in that other state, but we have no clue where that parent is.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And so it is interesting. Every case is unique. You know, sometimes you end up with two cases at the same time in two states.

Raena Burch: Mm-hmm. I’ve seen that. Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And, And then and only one state can have the home state jurisdiction. And then if both are pending at the time, then the judges [00:10:00] and the two states have to talk to each other and determine which one they think has home state jurisdiction. Because sometimes particularly with the military, the child has not been anywhere for six months.

Raena Burch: Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And so if you have a situation where the child has not been anywhere for six months and the parents are together in a state, the state that the parents were last together in would have the home state jurisdiction. Not the state Not the state that the child spent the last six, the previous, the last time it spent six months anywhere.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Because at that point there’s nobody in that state.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: So it, while it is confusing, it sort of does make sense. Are there witnesses and parties and evidence of the child’s wellbeing still in the child’s home stay?

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: If there is. Great. If not, then it needs to

Raena Burch: gotta move

Jonathan Breeden: to go move. It needs to go somewhere else.

Yeah. Because the court needs to be able to gain the information possible to be able to make the best decision for the [00:11:00] child.

Raena Burch: Got it. Yeah. And so to that end, let’s put the military, ’cause that brings up a question. So when you say, obviously the military moves people around and sends them away for training, sometimes six months to a year at a time or they’re completely stationed at a new duty station, but their home state in the military is still their home state according to the military.

Jonathan Breeden: Correct.

Raena Burch: So how does that work? Like how long does somebody need to be gone out of the state in order for them to have moved out? Does it have to be a training? Does it have to be a permanent duty station assignment, or they still get their home state advantage?

as far,

Jonathan Breeden: The only thing that really affects their true home state of where the military and they all, whether they’re from Florida or not live in Florida because they don’t wanna pay the state tax.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. Like they’re what, 9 or 10 states that don’t have any income tax.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: Florida happens to be one of ’em. Tennessee’s another one. So most military members, even if they happen to be from North Carolina, quickly figure out how to get themselves [00:12:00] to be residents of one of these other

Raena Burch: Yes

Jonathan Breeden: states that don’t charge income taxes. I don’t blame ’em. And that really does affect where they can file for a divorce. But North Carolina and for custody, it is kind of where the child has been. And so if they have been sort of TD wide for training, that is not gonna be considered a change. Now, if the child goes with them for 12 months and the child is in that other state, well then yes.

But most of the time on these temporary duty stations and the trainings, the, your family is not with you. The family follows the sort of permanent change of, of duty station that happens every three to five years. You get PCs, you get orders to the new place. So, we don’t usually have to worry about that for the temporary stations.

Now, one thing that’s interesting is a lot of courts will say if a parent is going to be assigned for nine or 12 months away from home, [00:13:00] that the child goes and lives with its biological parent and doesn’t stay with the stepparent. And so that gets to be a little confusing. But if you know you’re gonna be gone.

For nine to 12 months. Then the court would also often just have the child go stay with, its biological parent, not with the stepparent if you’re divorced or whatever. Now, if it’s a shorter thing, six weeks, 90 days, then the court is not gonna uproot the child from its school.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And its activities.

But if it’s gonna be a longer period of time or you’ve been assigned to Korea or Japan.

Raena Burch: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: or Germany, you know, that’s a whole another country ball of wax. Right. Because you’re gonna, because those are usually two and three year assignments and you gotta decide

Raena Burch: Yes,

Jonathan Breeden: who’s gonna have custody of the child.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: Is the child gonna go to these countries or not? And you know, that’s. That’s probably its own podcast. We’ll do one there.

Raena Burch: I’m sure it would be. Yes. All right. Next one. And this [00:14:00] kind of falls into that. Can a parent move with the child legally at, if they don’t have custody, and if they do have custody, how does that?

Jonathan Breeden: Okay. A parent should not

Raena Burch: mm-hmm

Jonathan Breeden: permanently move a child out of its home state, where the other parent is residing. Without that parent’s permission or the court’s permission, if a parent permanently moves a child from one state to the other without a court’s permission, even if there’s not a court case or without, I would say written permission of the other parent than the parent that is still in the state.

Say North Carolina can go and ask for an emergency custody order to have the child brought back to North Carolina, the home state and the state of original jurisdiction. And we get those, I don’t know, probably three or four times a year. Yeah.

And we literally go to the other [00:15:00] state. We get the police involved in the other state.

Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: They will go and they will bring the child. Our client will go to the other state. The police will get the child, give it to our client. Our client will drive the child back to North Carolina. And then there’s a return hearing. You know, we just finished one where the mom took the children to Hawaii.

Not once, but twice.

Raena Burch: Oh my goodness.

Jonathan Breeden: And we had to go to Hawaii twice and bring the child back with the Hawaiian authorities and all that stuff. That’s stuff that’s Yeah, it was, it was ridiculous. And now that parent, of course our client has sole custody of those children here in North Carolina.

And the other parent has to come here to visit because the court no longer trusts that parent to, because not only did they take the child to Hawaii once they took the child to Hawaii twice.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: So you do run in. You run into that now. If you think you wanna move, then the court, you can go to court and if the other parent doesn’t agree, you’re gonna have a trial.

And the court is gonna be looking for several things as to why it is maybe best for the child to be able to move outta state. [00:16:00] The court has to look at the reasons for why the parent wants to move. The child outta state. Does that parent have a job that’s going to better their life out of state?

What is the realistic out what kind of realistic visitation schedule can the court create with this child? If it’s primary for the parent still here, if the child is primarily in another state? The likelihood that the parent who is outta state will follow the North Carolina order, which is only valid in North Carolina if it is not formally registered in the other state.

So the court has to believe that the parent taking the child to the other state is going to do the right thing and follow the order. And they has to look at what is gonna be the relationship. With the parent that is still gonna be in, who’s gonna still be here and not out of state.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: And their family and their friends and their support system [00:17:00] and that kind of stuff.

So it’s not easy.

Raena Burch: No, i, yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And I would say that the vast majority of the time the court is going to say no to moving the child to another state. But now the court also has to look at how did you end up in North Carolina? I. Did husband’s job bring you here And the only and they have no family, no support.

And now they’re getting a divorce and the wife is gonna be the primary custodian and her support system is somewhere else. The court has to consider that military, like we talked about time, the military has brought these people here for just three years. Most times, you know, how much longer is dad gonna be here?

Mom now wants to go back where she’s from.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: Where she has a support system and dad, even though he is here, is training and gone. And it used to be deployed all the time. Now, you know, we’re not fighting everybody’s war, so people aren’t deployed as much, but you know what I’m saying?

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: So the court has to think [00:18:00] about all of that.

You know, did they meet on a dating site? Is that why mom is now here?

Raena Burch: Oh, okay.

Jonathan Breeden: About that. ‘Cause they met on a dating site.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And now it maybe didn’t work out and they want to go back. I mean, so I mean, all of this has to be considered. You know, the hardest ones I think for the judges are mom is remarried and mom’s husband now is having to go somewhere else

Raena Burch: for his job

Jonathan Breeden: right. Those are the absolute hardest decisions for judges to make because, you know, not only are you and mom may have a child with current husband.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: And now you really are having to decide, you know, are we gonna split this family? You know, what is best? So, you know, or my favorite, which is not uncommon.

You were married to somebody in the military. You divorce that person in the military, you marry a different military member in the military [00:19:00] and now that person is getting,

Raena Burch: so we didn’t learn our lesson the first time.

Jonathan Breeden: Right, right. Well now that, and you know, and so I’ll often look at clients when they’re sitting here and I’m like, wait a minute, you know you have a child service member, you now are married to a different service member.

Like, like you’re putting the court in a tough spot.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And I don’t know that you’re gonna absolutely win this.

Raena Burch: No.

Jonathan Breeden: Because all of this was foreseeable

Raena Burch: Yes. You knew what to expect because you’d been there, done that before,

Jonathan Breeden: correct? Correct. And I have won several for parents where either they, they were, I had, I won one not too long ago where I was representing dad.

Everybody’s living in Clayton. Everything’s all right. Nobody was in the military. But mom decided to marry somebody in the military. And he got assigned to somewhere, Quantico, somewhere in the DC area. And, the court did not let that child go there on a full-time basis.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Because the child was doing fine

Raena Burch: this is home

Jonathan Breeden: in Clayton. Right. And it was clearly foreseeable when mom and I even had text messages from dad and [00:20:00] mom talking. It’s like, dad really liked mom’s boyfriend.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Like he was a good guy. They all got along well. Dad and the boyfriend got along. Dad and mom didn’t go along, but he was sending texts to her going, you know, he’s in the military, you know he’s gonna get a different duty station.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: We’re here co-parenting this child. Well, I think he’s a great guy. Are you sure about this relationship?

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: And you know, and it is what it is.

Raena Burch: So we all make choices.

Jonathan Breeden: Right? Right. And dad ended up, you know, getting to keep the kid here in North Carolina. What often times you’ll see the court do is say, mom, you have to stay here until dad gets a new duty station.

And then now everybody’s leaving North Carolina. So at the point that he gets sent wherever he gets sent, Texas, Georgia, whatever. Okay, mom, you’re gonna be the primary custodian. You need to figure out how to make it here for another 12 or 18 months. And then and, and, you know, and you’re gonna get child support, post separation support, and, you know, stuff [00:21:00] like that.

Sometimes you stay military housing and you stay married. And then they’ll say, okay, alright. At the point that dad gets a new assignment, mom, you’re free to move about the country, the Southwest commercials wrong. You know, ding, you’re free to move about the country. And, And they will say that. So you, you you do see that.

But they are not going to order mom to follow Dad to the next duty station.

Raena Burch: No.

Jonathan Breeden: That’s not going, that’s not going to happen. Now the other thing we do see a lot Raena is. Military members that get separated from their children when they come, when they get out, they will often try to come where the children are.

Yes. And that could be upsetting the mom if she’s been a sole parent and she’s been making her own decisions and you know, that causes

Raena Burch: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: friction. But you know, look, those dads absolutely can come where the children are.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And file and try to get 50 50 custody and often do.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: So, you know, we do see that sometimes.

Raena Burch: Oh yeah.

Have family law questions? Need guidance to navigate legal challenges? The compassionate team at Breeden Law Office [00:22:00] is here to help. Visit us at www. breedenfirm. com for practical advice, resources, or to book a consultation. Remember, when life gets messy, you don’t have to face it alone.

Raena Burch: So number four. How do courts handle long distance parenting plans? Like you said, there has to be the home state and when they transfer, so like how does that transfer happen? Have you ever seen that happen when they’ve transferred it to another state because of the child had moved? And like you said, they have to talk to each other. How does that work?

Jonathan Breeden: Right, so the process is if everybody has left the home state then whoever has the child in the state where it’d been the previous six months would file a brand new action in that state. But they have to attach. Right. But they have to attach the other state’s order.

Raena Burch: Okay.

Jonathan Breeden: So go back to our original scenario. I leave North Carolina, go to Florida, we have a North Carolina custody order.

You would [00:23:00] file a new action in South Carolina where you’re living and you would say. Dear South Carolina Court, I would like to modify this North Carolina order and you know, I have jurisdiction because I’ve been here for two years. And the other party now lives in Florida, and it’s not in North Carolina.

Here’s a certified copy of it. And this is how I would like to see it modified to reflect our new custodial situation where we’re now, instead of five hours apart, we’re eight hours apart.

Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: Something like that. Yeah. And then, so I would then be served with the action in Florida. And I would then be able to object to, say South Carolina doesn’t have jurisdiction I could try to quickly move back to North Carolina or I could get a lawyer and defend myself in South Carolina in your motion.

Okay. Okay. So, so that’s how it goes. Or you have the option to just register? The other state’s order in your state for enforcement purposes, but you can also register in your order [00:24:00] for in, in your state for modification if you can prove that nobody is still in the home state. So two different ways to bring your order to where you are.

You’re kind of starting a new case, but the other order doesn’t completely go away because you’re attaching it saying, I’d like to see it modified Yeah. In some way. And so that’s what happens. If the order needs to move, there can only be one valid order per child in the country at one time.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: And so that’s how that, so that’s how that would work.

As far as standard visitation type schedules, if you’re, if your state’s apart and it’s too far to, to, if it’s more than four or five hours, you know, you can be in different states. I mean, we, you know, if you’re five hours, if you are three to six or seven hours away. And that means you can be in DC you can be in Knoxville, Tennessee, you can be in

Raena Burch: Atlanta,

Jonathan Breeden: Charleston, maybe even Atlanta.

Yeah. The court will often do [00:25:00] long weekends in your state. So if the child has a holiday, whether it be King Day. Memorial Day, teacher work day.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Stuff like that. The child could come for a three or four night weekend, whenever that is, and the parents would meet halfway. So there would be seven or eight of those throughout the year, and then they would do in the summer it would probably be like.

Two weeks on, two weeks off, or you get June. I get July.

Raena Burch: Yeah,

Jonathan Breeden: we do, we split August, something like that on a traditional calendar. So if you’re close enough, it, you know, if it’s under three hours, you can do every other weekend.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: And that’s not a big deal. If it’s three to seven hours, you’ll see, you’ll often see that long weekend.

During the school year, and then that person, if they’re not getting every the weekend during the school year, they’re gonna get more of the summer than the primary custodian. There’s 10 to 12 weeks in a traditional summer. [00:26:00] That out of state parent that’s not able to get every other weekend is probably going to get six or seven, maybe even eight of those summer weeks.

If it gets to be more than seven hours away, now we’re talking about airplanes.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: And stuff like that. Then you don’t get, the child does not come to your home during the school year except during holidays.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: But you, in almost every case, will have the right to come to this state. Once a month and have a weekend with 30 days notice to the other parent where you can take the child wherever you want in the child state.

So if it’s in North Carolina, take ’em to the beach.

Raena Burch: Yeah,

Jonathan Breeden: take ’em to the mountains, whatever.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Take ’em to whatever you wanna do. Great. Book lunch, right? You can come to the child once a month and the child would then come. For probably six, eight weeks in the summer would come for two weeks. One Christmas, the entire break, one Christmas and one week the next Christmas.

Raena Burch: Okay.

Jonathan Breeden: So the custodial parent would get every to Christmas, but they’re [00:27:00] going to lose the entire Christmas every other year. The child would then go. Two E, even in the three to seven hour range. If you’re not doing it at least every other weekend, the child would then go to the other parent every spring, break from the day school out for the day.

School resumes, the child. Depending on how long the fall break is, may can go for the fall break, particularly if it’s three or four days. You know what I mean? The child would go every other Thanksgiving. Whether it’s three to seven or even outta state on a plane. North Carolina does not go to school on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

So the child could fly out on Tuesday night and the child could fly back on Sunday.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: Like that. So you’d see every other Thanksgiving. The child would go there, the child would go there every Christmas. The child would go there every spring break and every summer. So, so in that scenario. If it’s outside of seven hours drive, the child goes to the other parent’s home three times a year.

Summer for a longer period, at least one week at [00:28:00] Christmas, every spring break and every other Thanksgiving.

Raena Burch: Okay.

Jonathan Breeden: So it still not a lot when you think about the grand scheme of things, you get outside of seven hours. You’re talking 50 nights a year?

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Out of 365. I mean, I don’t know how much of a parent you can be to me at that point.

You’re a little bit like a fun uncle or a Disney dad.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You know, but I mean, things happen, right? Like I, I’m not passing judgment, but I do think it is difficult to actually now with the invention of FaceTime and Zoom technology and, and, all the grades being on Blackboard. It’s a lot easier than it was when I started this 25 years ago.

Raena Burch: I see. I’m sure.

Jonathan Breeden: I mean it is, and you know, kids games being on, you know, all of my stuff’s basketball games are on YouTube. Yep. You know, like a lot of them and people make videos and so I mean, you, it is way easier now to be involved and be a co-parent. From somewhere else than it was even before COVID.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: To be honest,

Raena Burch: yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: As technology has [00:29:00] advanced but it is still, it’s still difficult to be a. Know, I mean, you could do it, you gotta work hard at it.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: You know what I mean?

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Call the kid every day. You can work hard at it, but as far as physical visitation, that’s kind of what it’s gonna look like.

So, so under three hours every other weekend you know, and then I tell people, you know, you can’t do 50 50 for more than about 30 minutes apart.

Raena Burch: Okay.

Jonathan Breeden: Everybody, I wanna do 50 50, but 11 an hour apart, that’s a little far for 50 50 most courts

Raena Burch: yeah

Jonathan Breeden: 30 to 45 minutes is about all they’re gonna do for 50 50 if it gets to be,

Raena Burch: I love the parent who lives outside of the school district is willing to drive an hour every, two times a day, every day to take the kid to and from school.

Jonathan Breeden: That’s true. That’s true. I’ve seen that happen a few times.

Raena Burch: Yeah. But not many.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. So, and then, you know, if you get to one hour to three hours, you can do every other weekend, maybe four on every other weekend, depending on who the judge is.

And then once you get to four to seven, maybe eight. That’s when you can get the one weekend a month if the child has [00:30:00] a long weekend. And then outside of seven or eight, then you’re looking at this three time a year sort of schedule as far as the child coming there. But in all of these scenarios, if you’re not getting every other weekend for no matter where you are, you will get the right to come to this state.

I mean, almost every case once a month to visit the child. And I would encourage parents to do that. Like, and I’ve had parents that are, that love to camp. You know, I’ve had, I mean like the parents that have done that ultimately have a much better relationship because they are physically with their child every 30 days.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And they, and it’s not that many times when you think, alright, well the child’s there in June and July, the child’s there every other November, the child’s there every December, the child’s there every March. We’re talking. September, October.

Raena Burch: Yeah,

Jonathan Breeden: February, April, maybe May, maybe four or five times a year.

The child’s not. You know, especially with the way the summer is, the way the holidays are.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: It makes a huge a huge difference to that child. For you to come and spend time with them here and take ’em to do stuff and maybe go [00:31:00] to their games, go to their soccer games

Raena Burch: yeah

Jonathan Breeden: or go to their basketball games or whatever they happen to be doing.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Band concerts, stuff like that. Like, you know, you just have to make an effort and people that make an effort ultimately rewarded for a better relationship with their children.

Raena Burch: Absolutely. Okay, so the last, last question and we’ve kind of touched on this a little bit. What should go into a travel agreement?

I know you said at some point, if it’s three to seven hours apart, you know, the parents meet halfway in the middle and then you know, go the separate directions with the child, S But is that required? Do, do parent, do the, does the court usually make parents meet halfway or if one moves away, does the court say. no, no, no. you have to come back and get the child when there’s flights involved? Does a parent have to fly with the child? How does that work?

Jonathan Breeden: Well, I mean, every case is unique.

Raena Burch: Mm-hmm..

Jonathan Breeden: Even if you moved away, most courts will have the parents meet halfway in a driving scenario because they want the child to be. And if the parents are good people, they’re on drugs, alcohol, [00:32:00] they want to be involved, you know. They’re normally good parents. They’re trying to be good parents. Then the court will still have you meet halfway.

As far as the flights are concerned children, until they’re seven, I don’t believe, can fly unaccompanied minor. So usually in that scenario, the court will have one parent fly to pick the child up and the other parent fly to pick the child up. So the parents would split the cost. The parent would pay for their flight, their round trip ticket to come to get the child from RDU, and then you would pay for your flight to go get the child from wherever the child is.

We just did a case the other day in Phoenix.

Raena Burch: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: This is what the court did.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: Our client has to go to Phoenix to pick the child up where the dad lives and bring the child back and then buy that child a one-way ticket if they’re over two. Because they have to have their own seat.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: After, once they’re over two on airplanes.

And so, so yeah. So that’s,

Raena Burch: and then dad has to do the same thing on the way back.

Jonathan Breeden: Correct. Correct. So it’s whoever’s picking the child up, flies to where the [00:33:00] child is, picks the child up and buys the one way ticket for the child to come back. In the vast majority of the times. Now, the court can split these costs if one parent makes 90% of the combined income, you know, stuff like that.

But that’s normally how the flight works. Once the child becomes old enough to fly unaccompanied minors and the parents can agree that they want to put the child on a flight that’s seven or eight or nine years old from one airport to the other. Then the parents would split the cost of that ticket with the unaccompanied minor fee, which is usually $150 on top of whatever the fare of the ticket is.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You know, I, if I would make sure that the child has flown a lot and is familiar with, with flying

Raena Burch: Yes

Jonathan Breeden: and is used to turbulence and stuff like that you know. My children have been flying since they were born. They’ve been on lots and lots of flights. I would’ve had no issues really doing that if it was a direct flight, given how much they had flown.

But if they’ve never been on a plane and they’ve [00:34:00] never been in turbulence, I, yeah. You know, I don’t know. Right. I mean, you know, your child, how mature they are, stuff like that. And then once they get to be. Like 13, 14, 15. They can just fly. They don’t have the under coming minor fee.

You, you know, my son can get through airports now at 15, 16.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: As well as I can. I mean, he’s flown so much fine gates. I. Take subways from between terminals.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: You, You know, that kind of stuff. So really, you have, you really need to know the child and the court’s gonna be interested in what the child, do the parents agree?

Do the parents not agree? You know, how much does the child flown? How comfortable is the child doing that? But I think that’s all that, that’s really important. And, you know, and I, and I’ve watched. I’ve watched family members, you know, raise children now that are grown adults, you know, where, where they were not in the same place.

And you know, one family member flew to Texas where that child was and picked him up for years. And then the child started flying to the dad was in Chicago and would fly between Houston, Chicago and you know, and while they never lived in the same [00:35:00] place after the child was two, they have a very good relationship, a very good bond.

You know, between the two families because the child went to, you know, they went to that much trouble, you know, for the child to come there every, every month. I, I think actually, you know, they were they were successful people. They could afford plane tickets. I think the child actually went every other weekend.

Raena Burch: Oh wow.

Jonathan Breeden: For most of its life. Yeah. So that’s not. That’s not normal.

Raena Burch: That’s not typical, but

Jonathan Breeden: Right. But you know, they were successful people. They could afford to buy the plane tickets. That’s something they prioritized. Y you know, it’s work. And that’s supported. Right. But it’s gotta be prioritized, right?

Yes. And you’ve gotta save the money for these tickets. You’ve gotta make the trouble to fly here and do it. Like that’s, I mean, that’s the thing like. You can do it, but you’ve gotta make it a priority. It’s gotta matter to you. And if it matters to you, it’ll matter to the child.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: And even if the other parent is hates you and is making it difficult, the child will see the efforts you’re making to be in their life and will respond according and will respond accordingly.

Raena Burch: Yes, so, so travel agreements should include driving if you’re you know, maybe

Jonathan Breeden: Correct

Raena Burch: you need to include a meet [00:36:00] spot.

Jonathan Breeden: Right?

Raena Burch: You like a halfway point, right?

Jonathan Breeden: And if it’s a high conflict case, it should say they have to bring ’em to the airport and you have to give ’em the, yeah, you gotta give ’em the flight at 10, 24 days in advance and you have to notify ’em if the flight’s delayed.

And then you will bring the child back to the airport at the end of the thing. So in a high conflict case, you gotta cover all of that,

Raena Burch: everything,

Jonathan Breeden: what airports we’re flying from, how far in advance the tickets have to be bought. What time can the flight leave? What time can the flight land?

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: That has to be in there a time.

Raena Burch: Can it be a non, does it have to be a nonstop, it has to be a

Jonathan Breeden: nonstop. Does that have to make a connection?

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: All of this in high conflict cases has to be laid out. I hate that. But I’m telling you, if it’s high conflict, everything has to be addressed so that everybody’s on the same page.

Raena Burch: Yep. And the same with driving. You need to, you need like, so you need have a meet point, you need to have a specific time, a specific day. Like you said, that when school ends and then the night before school begins and

Jonathan Breeden: Right

Raena Burch: it’s gotta be, everything needs to be laid out.

Jonathan Breeden: Correct. Correct. Well, cool. Well, that’ll do it for this episode of The Best of Johnston County Podcast.

Where we talked about multi-state custody [00:37:00] jurisdiction and how multi-state custody plans work. If you find yourself in this situation or want to know about bringing your custody order to North Carolina or modifying another state’s custody order here in North Carolina, reach out to us here at the Breeden Law Office at 9 1 9 6 6 1 4 9 7 0, or at our website BreedenFirm.com.

I’d be glad to sit down and have a meeting with you and tell you what your rights are. If you don’t know your rights, what rights do you have? As we say, always please like, follow, subscribe to this podcast wherever you’re seeing it. Leave us a five star review down below and share it in your Instagram stories and tag us The Best of Johnston County Podcast.

Until next time, I’m your host, Jonathan Breeden.

That’s the end of today’s episode of Best of Johnston County, a show brought to you by the trusted team at Breeden Law Office. We thank you for joining us today and we look forward to sharing more interesting facets of this community next week. Every story, every viewpoint adds another thread to the rich tapestry of Johnston County.

If the legal aspects highlighted raised some questions, [00:38:00] help is just around the corner at www. breedenfirm. com.