Winning Less, Resolving More

Jonathan Breeden: [00:00:00] On this week’s episode of The Best of Johnston County Podcast, we’re doing a special edition episode that we like to call Ask Jonathan Anything. And on this episode, our social media coordinator, Raena Burch, asked me, Jonathan Breeden, about questions about negotiations in a divorce, how to approach negotiations, what are ways to make negotiations go better, and things you can do to save money while you’re in negotiating a divorce or separation.

So if you’re interested in how negotiations actually work in a family law case, listen in.

Welcome to another episode of Best of Johnston County, brought to you by Breeden Law Office. Our host, Jonathan Breeden, an experienced family lawyer with a deep connection to the community, is ready to take you on a journey through the area that he has called home for over 20 years. Whether it’s a deep dive into the love locals have for the county or unraveling the complexities of family law, Best of Johnston County presents an authentic slice [00:01:00] of this unique community.

Jonathan Breeden: Hello, and welcome to another edition of the Best of Johnston County Podcast.

I’m your host, Jonathan Breeden, and on today’s episode we’re having a special edition episode that we like to call Ask Jonathan Anything. And on this episode, we are gonna talk a little bit about negotiation in divorce and negotiation in family law. Normally on this podcast, I, Jonathan Breeden, interview interesting community members about what they love about Johnston County, and the services they provide.

But every once in a while we do these special edition episodes where our social media coordinator, Raena Burch, asks me, Jonathan Breeden, family law questions that we deal with on a daily basis here at the Breeden Law Office. But before we get to that, I’d like to ask you to like, follow, or subscribe to this podcast wherever you see it, whether it be on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, X, or any of the other social media channels of the Best Johnston County Podcast. Best Johnston County Podcast comes out every single Monday, and has now for right at three years.

[00:02:00] That is hard to believe that it’s coming up on three years. And we also would like you to tag us in your Instagram stories, Best of Johnston County, and leave us a five-star review down below if you get any value from this podcast at all. Welcome, Raena.

Raena Burch: All right. So are you ready for this?

Jonathan Breeden: I am, ’cause I really don’t know what these questions are gonna be

Raena Burch: I know

Jonathan Breeden: but it’ll be interesting.

Raena Burch: That’s probably what I’m… That’s probably my favorite part, is you have no idea what I’m gonna ask you.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. And everybody on, everybody on YouTube’s like, “What kind of face is he gonna make?” “Is he gonna know the answer?”

Raena Burch: Yeah. Well, you always know the answers, so that’s good, ’cause you’ve been practicing for over 25 years.

So, all right, so first question: how do experienced family law attorneys determine which issues are worth fighting over, and which issues are better resolved through a compromise?

Jonathan Breeden: I think most family law attorneys that I know try to settle everything that they can settle.

And can try to find a compromise whenever possible, because we all know how damaging court and litigation.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And court trials can be. Things are said that can’t be taken [00:03:00] back. You don’t have any control over what that judge is going to do.

You don’t exactly know how the evidence is going to come out. You don’t know what witnesses may appear that you’re not prepared for or that you didn’t know.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You don’t know what witnesses you think are gonna say one thing, say something else. That’s always fun.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Yeah, that’s a load of fun, right?

Raena Burch: Your own or somebody else’s.

Jonathan Breeden: So, right. So I think all the family lawyers that I’ve worked with over the 26 years of doing this really do try to settle as much stuff as can be settled. But some things cannot be settled or at least they’re not gonna be settled outside of litigation and outside of court and with experience, you begin to see those things fairly quickly.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You know, we get hired to do a lot of separation agreements here at the Breeden Law Office. You know, several every week. And everybody I think [00:04:00] that comes in asking for a separation agreement believes there’s an agreement that can be reached. But it is often the time, I would say sometimes more than 50% of the time when there’s not going to be an agreement, at least not quickly. Because one side thinks one the other side is gonna cooperate and provide documentation and negotiate in good faith.

But, you know, I mean, we had one the other day where they hired for a separation agreement, and the next thing we know, we don’t know where she’s living, we don’t know where the wife went, we don’t know where the child is located.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: The agreed upon exchanges did not take place.

Raena Burch: Nope.

Jonathan Breeden: And when we finally got the child, the child was basically had been coached a lie

Raena Burch: Mm

Jonathan Breeden: about where she had been and who she had been with.

Raena Burch: Mm.

Jonathan Breeden: Because mom had gotten with another guy- … and that’s where they were. They weren’t where

Raena Burch: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: they said they were. They weren’t at her [00:05:00] sister’s house, they were at this guy’s house. You know, and so that’s not gonna resolve to a separation agreement-

Raena Burch: Probably not

Jonathan Breeden: at, at this point, no. No. So what we’re gonna have to do is we’re gonna have to probably file a litigation, which costs substantially more money.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: And we’re gonna have to go to court, and we’re gonna have to find out where is mom living? Who is this person? Do they have a criminal record? Are they a sex offender? I mean, a lot of things we’re gonna have to start to figure out. And then maybe we reach an agreement or maybe the judge has to decide.

But clearly

Raena Burch: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: this mom, at this point, is not going to cooperate, which is her absolute right. She doesn’t have to cooperate- … when you’re trying to negotiate a separation agreement.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: But she does have to come to court and respond to litigation. So the

Raena Burch: And explain herself

Jonathan Breeden: right, explain herself. So those are some of the things that you see. You know, if you’re

Raena Burch: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: you know, it is very, very difficult to negotiate outside a court setting with a narcissist.

Raena Burch: Mm.

Jonathan Breeden: They still believe that they are in control. And there are as many female [00:06:00] narcissists as male.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: Everybody listening, everybody just assumes it’s only men.

In the world, there is just as many females as male narcissists, and it looks differently, but it’s the same behavior.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And, you know, and it’s just- Oftentimes that’s, that’s not, you’re not gonna reach an agreement there.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: They think they’re still in control. They think that whatever codependent web they’ve spun- against the person is still going to be there. They think they’re gonna be able to control the attorney

Raena Burch: Yep

Jonathan Breeden: and, and, and bully the other side into

Raena Burch: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: a bad agreement. And, and sometimes-

Raena Burch: And they’re smarter than everybody involved …

Jonathan Breeden: well, and sometimes try to bully the, the other lawyer.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And so oftentimes when you’re in that situation, you just need to file litigation because nobody’s bullying the judge.

And when you get

Raena Burch: Well, they can try, but they’re, they’re not gonna

Jonathan Breeden: Right. And, and, and oftentimes when you can get somebody like that into a courtroom, negotiations get a little more fair

Raena Burch: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: and equal

Raena Burch: mm-hmm

Jonathan Breeden: before a judge that nobody knows does whatever the heck they wanna do.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And you have no control over it at all.

So, I mean, so that’s the thing. [00:07:00] So you do learn to spot when it’s probably a waste of time. But if you’re in litigation already, you know, then you do wanna keep trying to compromise if you can. Yeah. You know, really the, the debate oftentimes is how much more money we wanna sink into a separation agreement where there’s not gonna be an agreement until we get some help from the court-

Raena Burch: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: which means we need to litigate. And so, ’cause some people could spend a lot of money trying to get the other side to respond, trying to get a s- the voluntary handover

Raena Burch: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: financial information, you know, be reasonable about what the visitation schedule’s gonna be.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And when you’re negotiating a separation agreement, you know, and I, and I wish my, our clients, they get so upset sometimes with us, but I can’t force the other side to do anything.

Raena Burch: No.

Jonathan Breeden: I can’t set a court date. I can’t send a subpoena.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: I can’t send discovery. All I can do is ask them to negotiate with me in, in, in good faith. They don’t have to respond. They don’t have to have a lawyer. They don’t have to do anything.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And, and, and I know that’s [00:08:00] frustrating, but there’s not a lot I can do.

In litigation, there’s all kinds of things I can do, but when I’m trying to negotiate a separation agreement, and I don’t have the powers of the court and the rules of court, not a lot I can do if the other side doesn’t wanna cooperate.

Raena Burch: Yeah. And something to be said, and I don’t think a lot of people know this, but I think people are under this, like, the assumption or the misunderstanding that, well, if we don’t agree on absolutely everything, then we have to go to court.

Like, It’s like all or nothing before you go to court, and people don’t realize that you can agree on 9 out of the 10 things, and you go to the court for the 1 out of the 10 thing, and it’s not a six-hour, you know, hearing. It’s a one-hour hearing or.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. Depending on what the subject matter is. And look, you don’t have to put. You know, like, it’s often hard to get custody into a separation agreement. But, you know, ’cause people are emotionally involved with custody

Raena Burch: Yes

Jonathan Breeden: that kind of stuff. I understand it’s your children. But they may agree on the property.

They may agree on the alimony, if there’s gonna be any of that. May agree on who’s getting the house, the car. Like, so you could put the property in the separation agreement, maybe an alimony waiver [00:09:00] in the separation agreement, and then go to court and have a hearing on what the custody schedule.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: Is gonna be. You know, that kind of stuff.

Raena Burch: And that helps, you know, save people time, money.

Jonathan Breeden: Money, correct.

Raena Burch: But also emotional, you know, bandwidth too, if you’ve got everything else kind of sorted, and that’s the one thing that you’re trying to figure out.

Jonathan Breeden: Correct.

Raena Burch: So, okay. And so you kind of answered this already, but why do some clients focus on winning individual battles but lose sight of their overall goals?

Why do you think that happens?

Jonathan Breeden: Human nature.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You know, I mean, people are upset, they’re emotionally fragile, they’re hurt. They want to get back at the other side. They want the other side to feel whatever pain they’re feeling. And so they’re gonna wanna win everything, and that includes every little battle.

And they sort of lose sight of the point of the war, if we’re gonna use that terminology. You know what I mean? [00:10:00] You know, and what I tell people is, you know, we start this, you know, and I really hate to use this terminology, but it’s the one that’s the clearest. You know, if you’re gonna go into a contentious separation and you’re heading into litigation, then there’s gonna be a lot of little battles in this war of litigation, right? There’s gonna be a battle over custody. There’s gonna be a battle over child support. There’s gonna be a battle over alimony. There’s gonna be a battle over financial, over property settlement. There’s gonna be a battle over the house, battle over the 401(k)’s and the IRAs.

And at some point, all the battles are gonna have been fought or settled. Either they’re gonna be fought and the judge is gonna decide, or you’re gonna settle individual pieces and let the judge decide the other, and that’s when the quote-unquote war ends.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And you can get caught up in trying to win every single thing and lose track of the big picture.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You know, I mean, I was in a mediation last week where there was an agreement for each [00:11:00] side to get more than a half a million dollars. And then one side decides that they want to give, they want to pay $5,000 less because of the tax consequences of having to cash out some stocks to pay the other side the distributive award to even up the marital estate.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: The side, we almost lost the entire thing because.

Raena Burch: Over $5,000.

Jonathan Breeden: Our side did not want to give in on the $5,000 because they had thought they’d given in enough to agree to whatever amount of money they were getting. Like, and it was just at that point, I don’t even think it was about $5,000.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: I think it was about, like, the fight, right? Like, all of a sudden a very high-litigious case that went on for several years was coming to an end. The mediator had done a good job. The parties were getting very close to an agreement and kind of [00:12:00] had an agreement, but, like, you’re almost afraid to have an agreement when you’ve been at it that long.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And so when somebody says, “Well, I want to pay $5,000 less,” well then, now we’re gonna blow up.

Raena Burch: Oh.

Jonathan Breeden: Now we’re gonna go at it.

Raena Burch: Yeah. Y- you know what I mean? When each side was each still getting well more than a half a million dollars. Yeah. Now, it got saved, cooler heads prevailed, but, like, that’s the kind of stuff that we, that we see here.

Yeah, and that’s part of, you know, having your attorney with you, is to remind you of that. Like, ” Hey, in the grand scheme of things, like, this isn’t really… This is the battle, this is not the war. Like- Right … it’s okay.”

Right, that’s exactly right.

Yeah.

That’s exactly right. And, you know, and part of a lot of it is you gotta preserve your money, right?

Like, like, most people don’t plan to hire an attorney. Most people don’t have in a savings account 10, 15, $20,000 to litigate a case. Yeah. And in Wake County it’s 30 to $50,000 to litigate a case. You know? So if you can settle some battles [00:13:00] early, you can save significant money- … down the road, and you can put what limited resources you have to the battle that might matter more.

Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: Like, maybe the custody is the biggest thing to you, and okay, we’ll figure… You know, we can agree on the house. Yeah. I, I don’t know. But, but if you come out and you’re fighting for every little thing and not wanting to give on every little thing, particularly on temporary issues- … and stuff like that, you’re gonna be out of money fairly quickly with whatever your retainer was.

Yeah. And you’re gonna have to come up with more money that you might not have, and you might not be 20% down the road- Yeah … in this case.

Raena Burch: And that you might not get back in whatever you’re fighting for- Correct … down the road anyway.

Jonathan Breeden: Correct.

Have family law questions? Need guidance to navigate legal challenges? The compassionate team at Breeden Law Office is here to help. Visit us at www. breedenfirm. com for practical advice, resources, or to [00:14:00] book a consultation. Remember, when life gets messy, you don’t have to face it alone.

Raena Burch: Okay. So what do you think makes a divorce negotiation successful beyond simply reaching an agreement?

Jonathan Breeden: I think everybody’s gotta be honest, about what there is, right? Particularly when we’re talking about property, and money, and child support. I think the first thing that’s gotta happen is everybody’s gotta be telling the truth about what they have, what they earn, what they spent, and where the assets are.

If you can start with what there actually is and everybody’s telling the truth, lawyers can fairly quickly figure out, and we’ve said this many times before on this podcast, Raena, lawyers can fairly quickly figure out where this is going to go and where it’s gonna end up, and the overwhelming odds of what a judge probably is going to do.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And give you good advice, and get you and the other side to an agreement that is fair, that could save a lot of people a lot of money, can move on with your [00:15:00] life.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: And I think that that’s, that’s the thing. I think people also have to try as much as possible to take their emotions on the loss of the relationship and why that relationship ended out of it.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: And look at it as really, except when it comes to kids, a business that’s dissolving, right? It’s a contractual dispute, right? When it comes to property distribution, it’s a contractual dispute. What did this company, you know, Raena and Jonathan Inc.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Come up with while we would’ve been married?

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And how do we divide it equally as we go our separate ways? That’s basically what it is.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: It’s not whether I cheated or any of that when it comes to the property. It really doesn’t matter when it comes to the child support.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: You know, it might matter in alimony depending on who cheated.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And it might matter in custody if it affects the child, but 90-plus [00:16:00] percent of people who have affairs don’t cheat with horrible people. If they didn’t cheat with somebody who’s a terrible person, it really doesn’t have a lot of effect on custody-

Yeah …

to be honest. So I mean, I mean, that’s the thing.

So I think people have got to be, got to be honest, and they’ve gotta be able to take the emo- and, and I know it’s imp- it’s almost impossible, right? Yeah. But you’ve gotta be able to look at it- You know, as apart from it so that you can get the, the, a deal. Because here’s the thing, there is no magical satisfaction at the end of this.

No. Whether you settle it through a separation agreement, whether you litigate it and spend money you don’t have, at the end, you are still going to feel disappointed. You’re still gonna feel hurt. You’re still gonna feel unsatisfied. You know, you’re not going to get, even if you have a trial, the chance to tell the other person how horrible they are and how horrible they were to you, and have the [00:17:00] judge read them the riot act about being a terrible person and how they should have never done these things.

That’s just not what’s going to happen.

Yeah.

And even if it did, you’re still without the relationship. Yeah. Maybe it’s, it, it’s often better. I mean, it’s often better.

Often,

yeah. It’s often better, but it’s still a lot.

Yeah.

It’s still, it’s hurtful. I mean, you know, it’s still painful. And the court system is not designed to make you feel better.

Right? It is designed to apply the law equally to all people.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

And I think a good thing to keep in mind, and I mean, I try to do this, I know I tell my kids to try to do this, anybody I know try to do this, I’m like, every decision you’re making, ask yourself, ” Can I live with this at tomorrow? Can I live with it a week from now? How about a month from now? A year from now? 10 years from now?” And if you can, like, you know, if you can see yourself in five years living with whatever the negotiation is that they’re putting on the table, like, okay, you can see yourself doing that in five. Like, living that for five years.

Okay. Then, like, that seems [00:18:00] like probably a pretty good thing to agree to.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, I mean, any negotiation, you gotta know your best case and your worst case.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: Right? You know, anytime you’re negotiating any of this, separation agreement, right, litigation, whatever, trying to settle a case, like you always wanna know what is a worst-case scenario for me if I take this to a judge? What is a best-case scenario for me if I take this to a judge? And then you’re trying to find something in between that based on your lawyer’s training and experience.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And the way they’ve seen other cases do, and how the evidence may be falling. And I think that’s important to understand.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Because the odds of you getting your absolute best day are not great.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: The odds of you getting your absolute worst day, not that great.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You know, everything’s sort of on lands in the middle.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You know, and if you’ve got lawyers that know what they’re doing, they kinda know where it’s gonna be. The question just becomes, do you listen to them or not?

Raena Burch: Yeah. Do you trust your lawyer?

Jonathan Breeden: Right. Right. And does the other side listen to their lawyer?

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. ‘Cause that’s the other part.

Raena Burch: You

can’t, you can’t make them.

Jonathan Breeden: You can’t make an agreement with somebody that’s [00:19:00] not agreeable.

Raena Burch: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And like you said, sometimes with the, when you’re working with narcissists, they think they’re the smartest person out of everybody dealing with this. And so if their lawyer tells them, “Hey, no, like, this is like your best bet,” and they go. “No, I don’t believe you.” Right. They don’t, yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. But I also think attorneys have a, and we strive, we really work on this here at the Breeden Law Office, I think it is extremely important that we are realistic on the outcomes.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: That we think could happen based on the facts from the very beginning.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: It doesn’t do anybody any good for us to hear your best-case scenario that you would like, you know, full custody, he gets, you know, four nights a month with his children, two weeks in the summer, you get every holiday. Like, that’s probably not gonna happen. That’s probably not

Raena Burch: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: what’s best for the children. And so to sit there and tell you that you’re gonna get that when that’s probably not gonna happen

Raena Burch: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: in the vast majority of cases isn’t doing anybody any good.

Raena Burch: [00:20:00] No.

Jonathan Breeden: And it’s causing you possibly to spend money that wouldn’t, wouldn’t be necessary.

Raena Burch: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: And it’s just gonna create greater disappointment for you if you go to court, spend all this money

Raena Burch: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: and it ends up 50/50 or 60/40, and you, you thought it was gonna be 80/20.

Raena Burch: Yeah. Yeah, and it’s, yeah, very important that, you know, like you said, we tell people maybe not what you wanna hear, but it’s what you need to hear.

Jonathan Breeden: Correct.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Correct.

Raena Burch: All right. Number four. So how do you handle situations where a client wants something emotionally, but it may not be the best legal strategy?

Jonathan Breeden: I mean, that’s hard, right? I mean, and I think you have to just continue to explain to the client why that you believe your legal strategy is best. Point out that their emotions are controlling and that their emotions are not often logical.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: But in the end, it’s the client’s case.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And if you can’t convince the client to do what you think they should [00:21:00] do, as long as they’re not asking you to do something illegal.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Or unethical.

Raena Burch: Unethical.

Jonathan Breeden: Then you go do it, and the chips fall where they may, and they spend whatever amount of money it ends up costing, and the judge makes whatever decision the judge is gonna make.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And you know, and ultimately, you know, sometimes people, you know, especially when it comes to people alienating their children from the other parent, whatever you do, never talk bad about the other parent in front of the child. I don’t care what you think of that person, and I don’t care what that person may have done to you. Talking bad about the other parent accomplishes nothing and is like stabbing that child in the heart, because that child is half the other side’s.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And you’re not scoring any points trying to alienate the child or badmouth the other parent to the child. You’re just hurting that child’s self-esteem and hurting that child’s love for you, and maybe hurting that child’s love for the other parent.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And so that’s the one thing you absolutely don’t wanna do, and that’s just not gonna go anywhere.

Raena Burch: Yeah. [00:22:00] All right, and last one. So what negotiation mistakes commonly cause divorces to become more expensive and complicated?

Jonathan Breeden: Well, I think going into negotiations when your lawyer doesn’t have the whole story. Right?

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: If you don’t have the facts, if you’ve not been told of a boyfriend or a girlfriend who may have character issues, when your lawyer has not been told that maybe you can’t pass a drug test or you’ve not told your lawyer about where the assets are, or where your pay is going, or where the savings accounts are, or crypto, or any of the things that are sort of omnibus out there, right?

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Like, I’m just saying, so I do think it’s back to something we said earlier, which is, you know, it is very difficult to negotiate anything when your attorney is not starting with the truth.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And I don’t care what the truth is, we can work with almost any truth as long as we know what the truth is.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And so I think the number one thing is [00:23:00] you gotta be honest. You gotta be honest about what you’ve done, what you haven’t done, who you’re around, who your children are around. Are you using drugs? Are you trying to get off drugs? Do you drink too much? You know, are you aware of Snapchats, and Facebook, and Instagrams of you doing keg stands, or drunk, or.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Partying, or, you know, you have an OnlyFans account. I mean, this is all stuff we’ve dealt with in the last 10 days, Raena. Like,

Raena Burch: I believe it.

Jonathan Breeden: Everybody’s listening to this like, “That’s crazy.” No, literally what I just said, we have dealt with in the last 10 days, all 10 of everything I just said.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: OnlyFans, drunk pictures, keg stands. Like, it is what it is.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: We just gotta know.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: We gotta know, because if it’s out there, and everything’s public now.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: And people make everything public for some reason.

Raena Burch: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: You know, you gotta bet the other side’s gonna be bringing it to you.

Raena Burch: Absolutely.

Jonathan Breeden: Even if you block the other side, y’all got a mutual friend that’s feeding it to them.

Raena Burch: Yes, every time. Or they make a fake account or, [00:24:00] or, you know, what have you, and stalk you that way.

Jonathan Breeden: Right.

Raena Burch: But you know, I mean, definitely, like you said, so obviously be honest. Everything, it might, it might be embarrassing.

You might be ashamed Okay, that’s what attorney-client privilege is for. They’re not gonna run around telling everybody you did that. Like, but tell your lawyer so that they can devise the best strategy for you to hopefully get you what you are looking for, and maybe save you some money in the process.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, I mean, I hope so. You know, and I mean, just try to… You know, and hopefully the other side is, you know, everybody’s trying to, to get to an agreement.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: You know what I mean? Like, that’s not always-

Raena Burch: No …

Jonathan Breeden: I mean, that’s not always the case. But, but I think if, if the information is there it’s, it’s just easier.

And when stuff starts popping up and, you know, we gotta spend time and money trying to find stuff that’s not there

Raena Burch: mm-hmm

Jonathan Breeden: or that, or is there or not there. I mean, oftentimes we go on goose chases looking for something that’s not there.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: If the other side would’ve just given us what we asked for, we would’ve seen it’s not there.

Yeah.

I mean, y- you know [00:25:00] what I mean? So you, you run into some of that. I do think people need to just… And if you can also, and I know this is really hard when you’re going through a divorce, think about it from the other side’s perspective- … as well. You know, especially when it comes to custody.

Yeah.

You know, like, you know, in, in holidays, in family events, in family reunions and stuff like that. Yeah. And I know that’s hard, but like, you know, think about it from the other side’s perspective, and try to think about any of these negotiations about what’s best for the child as well. And I think a lot of people, they, they get emotionally tied up in the breakup of the marriage- or the relationship, and they’re too upset with just the relationship, and they’re not thinking logically or clearly

Raena Burch: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: about how this needs to go because they’re hurt and they’re trying to hurt the other side.

Raena Burch: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And you’re not going to hurt the other side, no matter what you do. You’re just gonna spend a bunch of money and

Raena Burch: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: leave more disappointed most of the time.

Raena Burch: Yeah. And I will say, you know, at [00:26:00] least when I went through my divorce and whatnot one of the things I really took into account was my experience as the child of being divorced, of divorced parents, and how that, like how that affected me and what I would’ve preferred to have happened in that situation as the child.

And so, you know, if you are not one of those people and your parents are still happily married, love that for you. You probably know someone who is the child of divorced parents. Ask them, ask them what they would’ve preferred in that situation or how they felt or, you know-

Jonathan Breeden: Right … what- Right. Get other, get other perspectives.

Yes. You know what I mean? Because I mean your, your decision-making and your thought process is clouded by your emotions, your biases- … everything else. So, you know, trusted fam- You know, listen to your lawyer, you know, talk to some family friends, talk to people that know you, like stuff like that. Yeah.

Get as much information as possible so you can make the best decision.

Absolutely.

All right. Well that’s gonna do it for this episode of the Best of Johnston County podcast where we talked about negotiations in [00:27:00] a family law case, divorce case type thing. If you are in, in a divorce separation case or might be headed into one and kind of wanna know what your rights are and how to approach negotiating with the other side, give us a call here at the Breeden Law Office at 919-661-4970 or reach out to us at breedenfirm.com.

We definitely wanna help you be the hero of your life story. As we mentioned earlier, please like, follow, subscribe to this podcast wherever you stand, whether it be on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, X, TikTok, LinkedIn, or any of the other social media channels of Best Johnston County Podcast. But if you’d be so kind as to leave us a five-star review down below and tag us in your Instagram stories, Best of Johnston County.

Till next time, I’m your host, Jonathan Breeden.

That’s the end of today’s episode of Best of Johnston County, a show brought to you by the trusted team at Breeden Law Office. We thank you for joining us today and we look forward to sharing more interesting facets of this community next week. Every story, every viewpoint adds another [00:28:00] thread to the rich tapestry of Johnston County.

If the legal aspects highlighted raised some questions, help is just around the corner at www. breedenfirm. com.