Finding Yourself After Divorce

Jonathan Breeden: [00:00:00] On this week’s episode of The Best of Johnston County, our guest is Anna Howerton. She is a divorce coach who went through a divorce herself. We talk to her a little bit about why she got into divorce coaching, what is divorce coaching, and how it’s separate from counseling or therapy, what she does to try to help people regain control of their life and see that there is a future and a whole new life on the other side of divorce.

So listen in.

Welcome to another episode of Best of Johnston County, brought to you by Breeden Law Office. Our host, Jonathan Breeden, an experienced family lawyer with a deep connection to the community, is ready to take you on a journey through the area that he has called home for over 20 years. Whether it’s a deep dive into the love locals have for the county or unraveling the complexities of family law, Best of Johnston County presents an authentic slice of this unique community.

Jonathan Breeden: Hello, and welcome to another edition of the Best of Johnston County podcast.

I’m your host, Jonathan Breeden, [00:01:00] and on today’s episode, we have a divorce coach, I’m excited about this one, Anna Howerton, and she is gonna talk to us a little bit about why you might need a divorce coach, relationship coaching in general, why she got in it, some of the services she provides, which includes coaching on how to act on a first date.

And me, having not been on a first date in almost 22 years, I think that’s absolutely fascinating. Hopefully, I’ll never have to go on a first date. So anyway, ton of different programs that she offers and why she does it. I think you’re gonna find this extremely interesting. I’ve enjoyed talking to her and this is gonna be a lot of fun.

But before I get to that, I’d like to ask you to like, follow, subscribe to this podcast wherever you see it, whether on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, TikTok, X, LinkedIn Instagram or any of the other social media channels, the Best Johnston County podcast. The Best Johnston County podcast comes out every single Monday now, and has for right at three years.

So if you’d like to listen to some of our previous episodes, we’ve had a lot of great guests. We’ve had the county economic development [00:02:00] director, Chris Johnson. We’ve had the county parks director multiple times. We’ve had the vast majority of the Johnston County commissioners. We’ve had Just Dog People talking about dog treats and different things they provide.

We’ve had K9 training people with BlueLine K9 Training. If you love Johnston County as much as I do, this is the podcast for you. Welcome, Anna.

Anna Howerton: Thank you so much, Jonathan.

Jonathan Breeden: And I’m not gonna call you Anne.

Anna Howerton: Okay.

Jonathan Breeden: Well- Anyway, you’re Anna, and I’m gonna get your name right anyway. So tell the audience who you are and what you do.

Anna Howerton: Yeah. So I’m Anna Howerton, and I’m a relationship coach really focusing on divorce arenas, right? Areas where people are thinking about it, going through it, trying to recover from a divorce, and then dating after divorce. So those are the kinda main pillars that I work with clients. So divorce contemplation, people who are really agonizing, “Should I stay? Should I go?” I know you have a lot of people come and probably do consults here who aren’t ready to pull the trigger on a divorce process.

They’re unsure if it’s right for them, and sometimes it’s not right. But sometimes it is the right [00:03:00] decision. But it’s an agonizing call to make, and it’s really agonizing to make on your own in a silo if you don’t, you know, wanna talk to your parents about it, your neighbors, your colleagues. So that’s a main area of focus on my coaching is helping people sort of make the call if it’s right for them or not. And then helping people, you know, advising them, “Okay, if you live in Johnston County, you call Jonathan Breeden and go work with one of his attorneys.” So helping people, ’cause some people don’t even know what is a family law attorney?

What is the first step? What do I even do if I wanna start to educate myself? So, okay, have a consult with this firm. Then people are going through it, so people are in the thick of it, working with your team, working with an attorney, and going through the process and just getting coaching. You know, sort of more on the emotional, relational, mental, spiritual side. Certainly not the logistical, legal side. I’ll let y’all handle that. And then people who are maybe through the process, so they’re recovering. They’re kind of picking their head up and they’re like, “Okay. Wow, I got through the legal process. I’m divorced. Now what? [00:04:00] I’m still devastated. I just had my whole life ripped out from under me. You know, I didn’t want this, and now how do I co-parent? How do I date after divorce? What does that even look like? I’ve not dated in 21 years” as you just said. So a lot of people need help, you know? The apps weren’t out when I was dating in college and when you were dating in college. They didn’t even exist.

So helping people navigate dating in today’s world of technology or our technology first world and landscape is very challenging and really overwhelming to a lot of people. And then, you know, I also help in dating in general because that’s even, you know, not related to divorce, as I just shared. It’s really this d- it’s a different landscape today in dating.

So I’ve had clients who are widows and dating, or men and women who are dating in their 20s, 30s, who just haven’t found the right person yet, and they’re exhausted by the process. They’re exhausted by the apps, the online, the you know, just the, the lessening of the in-person engagement that’s happening and meeting people in real life.

[00:05:00] And I do feel like people are kind of losing those muscles and, and just even knowing how to flirt.

Jonathan Breeden: Yeah. I, I mean, that’s, that, that would definitely be an issue for people. And we s- I mean, you know, we, we see, we have a lot of people come in here and do consults, and then we don’t hear from them for six, nine

Anna Howerton: Right

Jonathan Breeden: 12 months. I mean, like, you know, the, the process on getting a divorce or not getting a divorce usually, usually one side wants it and one side doesn’t.

Anna Howerton: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: And it has been At least the side that wants it has probably thought about it for 12 months

Anna Howerton: Uh-huh

Jonathan Breeden: is what the research says.

Anna Howerton: Right.

Jonathan Breeden: And, and all of that kind of stuff.

So what is your background? What brought you to this? You’re not a counselor, you’re a coach. So what is your background, and what brought you to doing this?

Anna Howerton: Yeah. Thanks, Jonathan. So I was a psychology political science major at Carolina 20 years ago. I spent 18 years in talent recruitment admissions, so I had a career basically in HR. And so I worked at a top business school in admissions. I led global talent teams. My last job [00:06:00] was in Raleigh, helping a growth stage digital marketing company scale from 0 to 250 million in revenue, and that was a lot of fun in three years. And so I was head of people, head of talent, and that’s actually when I went through my own divorce.

And when I was going through that, I felt terribly alone. I was just hyper-focused on my job. I had two small children. My dad is a minister, so I grew up a minister’s daughter. So my parents were wildly unsupportive. I married my college sweetheart, so we have all the same friends. I couldn’t talk to any of my friends about it, and I just felt really, really alone.

I didn’t know a family law attorney was a divorce attorney. When you don’t have divorce in your life, I didn’t even have one friend that was divorced. I didn’t even know how to kickstart the process. I called my realtor and asked them, like I said you.

Jonathan Breeden: Told me that.

Anna Howerton: Right. I got a drink with my realtor, and I was like, “Hey, if I’m thinking about this, how do I even start?”

Well, I would like to offer people an alternative to calling their realtor to sort of shepherd them through the process and give them options on like, “Okay, here’s some great family law [00:07:00] attorneys to think about,” and/or, “Here’s some things to think about before you even do a consult,” because it isn’t right for everyone.

It’s not the right call for everyone. And so I felt super alone when I was in my own divorce process. And then a couple years before I left my last job, I saw an article by a divorce coach, like dating after divorce, and I thought, ” That’s a job? I could do that.” You know? Like I’ve just gone through my own divorce process.

I kind of culled together the resources I needed, books, podcasts. I mean, I just, I delved into it all myself, and I thought, “This could be an amazing service to offer people who are contemplating. Here’s a podcast you’re gonna listen to. This is the book you need to read. This is the book you and your spouse should read together to m- maybe make the decision together.

Here’s a tool you should do. Here’s an assessment.” Here, you know, all these things that I’ve basically collated together for myself, and then also I’ve now been through it, so I can give you advice. Like anytime you’re doing something, like if you’re gonna run a [00:08:00] marathon, maybe you would hire a coach who had done a couple marathons and had a great personal time.

And, and so it’s a, it’s a major life transition and process, so why wouldn’t you want a guide to kind of shepherd you through it? And so I went and got two different certification processes for divorce coaching and then also relationship coaching because I love love and I love relationships, and I want people…

My, my real goal is for people to be in an aligned relationship, aligned marriage. I’m now married for the second time very happily. I’m so in love. I am married to the exact right person I should be married to. And so that is my biggest goal is I’m not pro-divorce. I am pro-people being in a marriage that they are happy to be in.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, I mean, that’s great. That’s great. And you’re helping people get there.

Anna Howerton: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And, and you know, and sometimes people come to see us, and a large percentage never do anything. Yet, you know what I mean? That, you know, maybe they’re not gonna get as [00:09:00] much, you know, particularly when we’re talking to unemployed or underemployed women.

You know what I mean? Most of them were professionals. They had a career, they got married, they had kids, they dropped out of the workforce to raise the kids. This marriage is falling apart. Now they have to decide All right. There’s not enough money for them to not go back into the workforce

Anna Howerton: Right, right

Jonathan Breeden: in most situations.

Anna Howerton: Sure.

Jonathan Breeden: So now it’s like, not only am I gonna have to deal with this marriage ending, but I’m gonna have to get back in the workforce. I’m, I’m gonna have to get retrained. I’m gonna need new skills. Who’s gonna hire me? I haven’t worked in 10 years.

Anna Howerton: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: Do I have the confidence to even go for a job interview?

What am I gonna do about daycare? You know, and they have to… And sometimes a lot of them is like, “You know what? Maybe I should just stay in this marriage.”

Anna Howerton: Right.

Jonathan Breeden: And, and I don’t know what’s right or wrong.

Anna Howerton: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: I’m not in that marriage.

Anna Howerton: Right.

Jonathan Breeden: But when you’re talking to somebody like that, and these are the people you help a lot. What are the questions you’re asking them to help them get guidance as to [00:10:00] whether they really wanna go through this change? And oh, by the way, you’re probably gonna lose 50% of your custodial time with your children on top of this.

Anna Howerton: Yep. That’s a great question. So I have a value assessment that I have my clients do, and I essentially try to help them get really clear, crystal clear, what do you value most?

What is the most important thing? If the most important thing is staying in this house, your dream house that you love, okay, cool. Then I need you to anchor in gratitude for that house, but realize you’re maybe not gonna be married to somebody who’s emotionally available or if your number one priority is not, you know, having your kids 50% of the time, okay.

I’m gonna help you grieve the loss of being with someone that you’re actually in love with, and what does that look like for your life? So I help people with this assessment tool I take them through get really clear on what they value most, and if being in love is not a top value, that’s okay.

That’s not everyone’s top value. If having a great sex life is your, is not a top value, okay, we’re gonna let that die. That’s a [00:11:00] bummer. I think all of us would want all the things in love, like a wonderful emotional, intellectual, physical connection with your spouse. Like, kind of humming on all those areas is an ideal, wonderful marriage and relationship.

The reality is lots of us can’t have all of those. And so if you’re not, just make sure that the things that you’re not getting, that you’re grieving right now, why they came in to do a consult with you. If that, if those things aren’t your top value, then yeah, you should stay. But then I need you to release it and say, “Okay, I kind of recognize if I stay in this marriage, I’m not gonna get X, Y, or Z, but I am getting A, B, and C, and those matter most to me, so I’m gonna make sure that’s what I focus on every day.

Okay, I’m so grateful that I have my kids 100%, or I’ve got this house, or I’ve got this club membership, or whatever, or I don’t have to work outside the home,” things like that. So that’s something I take them through. But to your point a minute ago, talking about people who’ve been out of the workforce, one of the ways I actually work with people I had a, a, a male [00:12:00] client signed up with me first, but now I’m actually working with him and his soon-to-be ex-wife.

His, his wife has been out of the workforce for many years, and so he actually… I work with people in 12-week intensives, and so he wants me to do basically half his sessions with her to coach her on her LinkedIn, her resume. We’ve already done a couple calls. I’ve coached her on, like, her networking message to send out saying she’s looking.

I’m gonna do some interview prep coaching with her. So that actually is something that I offer, is if people are gonna need to transat- transition back into the workforce, how do I do that? How do I present myself in a, you know, polished and compelling way, and again, on the, in, you know, technology landscape that we live in to get a job.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, one of the things you do do is you also work with couples to try to prevent divorce.

Anna Howerton: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: You have a three-day intensive program where you work with the couples. Talk about what that is and how it works.

Anna Howerton: Yeah. So I do that actually with my husband. Mark he is a licensed marriage and family therapist, so [00:13:00] he’s a therapist, I’m a coach. We can talk about the differences at a different point. But so he and I would work with a couple for three days, because sometimes when people are in crisis, I know you’ve seen a lot of people in crisis ’cause you’ve been doing this for a long time it doesn’t cut it to say, “Okay, now we’ve had this big, you know, injury in the marriage. There’s been an affair,” you know, emotional, physical, whatever.

Something has happened. There’s been this quake in the marriage. It doesn’t cut it to say, “Okay, we’re just gonna go to therapy one hour a week for the next six months.” Like, that doesn’t work for some people, especially when you’re in crisis. You kinda need to say, “Wow, we’ve just had this big fissure happen in our marriage, and now we need to really go deep with.” And we really like that it’s the male and female component, so the two of us together, so that I’ll do some solo sessions with the woman, Mark will do solo sessions with the man, then we come back together and we do, you know, two on two.

And we have a number of assessments and tools of basically trying to understand [00:14:00] what happened, why it happened, how we got there, why they’re at such a difficult pain point. And we get them to, you know, a sort of a clarity decision point on saying like, “Hey, do both of you have enough gas in the tank to try to make this work?”

Like, our goal after that intensive is to say like, “Okay, yes, we are gonna try.” But a lot of times, and you know this, one person is gone.

Jonathan Breeden: Right.

Anna Howerton: Mentally, emotionally, spiritually, they’re already gone. And you get to that a lot faster when you kinda do three days intense of like, “Hey, let’s go dive in deep right now.”

Because if you’re gonna get to the exact same outcome six months from now of once-a-week therapy, get to it now. Get to it faster, right? But sometimes both are willing to work, and both are ready to own their part, you know? There’s always two parts. Nothing happens-

Jonathan Breeden: Absolutely …

Anna Howerton: nothing happens in a vacuum. So if there’s been an affair, you know, what hap- I mean, you know, there’s many, many reasons that happens, but, you know, was there something the [00:15:00] other partner wasn’t doing or, you know, that created this environment? It’s not always the case. Some people do it, and there’s absolutely no reason to blame anybody but the person who stepped out.

Like, I acknowledge that. But, you know, both of you probably have parts that you could work on to create a new marriage and a new relationship, a new way of engaging so that you don’t get to a vulnerable spot where something happens like that again. But you both gotta want it. If you both don’t want it, it’s not gonna work.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. Right. No, you’re absolutely right. And, and, you know, one of the things when people are coming to see us, you know, that we’re, we’re trying to figure out is, you know, usually when somebody comes in They’re either, I, I know this is surprising, but this is the truth, they’re either somewhat surprised that their marriage is over.

Should they have been? That’s a whole nother debate, but they are- … kind of caught off guard.

Anna Howerton: Right.

Jonathan Breeden: And they’re sort of [00:16:00] panicking. The other half of the time, we’re talking to somebody who’s already grieved the loss of the relationship- … while they were in it.

Anna Howerton: Mm.

Jonathan Breeden: In that six to 12 months I was talking about earlier.

Right. And they’ve gone through the stages of grief. And you’re gonna go through, if you go through a divorce, all the stages of grief- … as if somebody died.

Anna Howerton: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Because the relationship died.

Anna Howerton: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And I don’t know all six or seven of them, but I know that they’re there and, you know, one of them is being angry

Anna Howerton: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: and one of them is being sad, and all this stuff. And the one thing that I know, which causes us a lot of trouble here, is if I’ve got the side that was surprised, whether they should’ve been or not, now I’m gonna be representing them in a contentious case while they’re going through the stages of grief-

Anna Howerton: Mm

Jonathan Breeden: that, that the other person has been through. Right. And so, you know, sort of the last stage, I used to always call it the over it stage, right?

Anna Howerton: Mm.

Jonathan Breeden: Like, you’re over it, you’ve moved [00:17:00] on. And I had a lady on a few about a year ago on this podcast, who works at hospice.

Anna Howerton: Mm.

Jonathan Breeden: And she said, she said, “No, Jonathan, it’s not over it.

You learn to carry the grief.”

Anna Howerton: Mm.

Jonathan Breeden: “You carry the loss with you.” And so I thought that was fascinating, so I’ve started to talk about it a little differently.

Anna Howerton: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: But we do see that. And so- … you know, in that process, and it’s shocking that if you’ve got the surprise side and you’re trying to work it out, it takes about six to eight months- for them to go through those stages. And when they finally get to the carry it stage, then you can settle the case. But before then, they’re gonna wanna fight.

Anna Howerton: Tango.

Jonathan Breeden: Because, because they’re, they’re hurt, right?

Anna Howerton: Right. Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And, you know, and it costs money and, and

Anna Howerton: Right. Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: you know, a lot of hurt feelings.

Yeah … but I mean, we do see that. And- … and I think people need to recognize that they’re gonna have to go through that if they’re l- whether they’re in the marriage or out of the marriage, they’re gonna have to go through that.

Anna Howerton: Yeah. I

Jonathan Breeden: mean- Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean

Anna Howerton: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: you probably see it, and you probably do a much

Anna Howerton: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: better job helping them through it than I would

Anna Howerton: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: because I don’t know any of this stuff, other than [00:18:00] just having watched a couple

Anna Howerton: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: thousand divorces over 26 years.

Anna Howerton: Right. Right. Well, a million dollar question people always ask is, ” Can a marriage survive an affair?” And I have been close enough to a number of relationships and affairs that have happened with clients that the answer is they can survive an affair if both people are actually still in love.

Sometimes people are having affairs when they’re still in love with their spouse. It’s just they’re super selfish or they have some childhood trauma that they, you know, followed a sparkly object, and then they’re deeply remorseful. But the problem is, if there’s an affair and that there’s no deep remorse and/or that person is out of love anyways, it’s not gonna work.

But if you’re both still in love, which happens, like, you can repair that. It’s just you both, you both have to still be in love. If you’re not, it’s really hard to come back from.

Have family law questions? Need guidance to navigate legal challenges? The compassionate team at Breeden Law Office is here to help. Visit us at www. breedenfirm. com for [00:19:00] practical advice, resources, or to book a consultation. Remember, when life gets messy, you don’t have to face it alone.

Jonathan Breeden: So what is the difference between a coach and a therapist. Because you’re not a therapist.

Anna Howerton: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: You happen to be married to one.

Anna Howerton: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: You’re a coach. Yes. So what is the difference?

Anna Howerton: It’s- so it’s a difference in a way that I work with people. So typically, I work with people in kind of high intensity, high impact, high touch ways. So I, work with clients usually 12 week intensive, because I wanna really be a bridge from A to B. So I’m a big sports fan.

I was, grew up an athlete. My parents are rabid Carolina fans. And so I like the idea of being a coach because I’m, like, in the trenches with someone. And if you’re really hurting, you just referenced clients who are the surprise ones, and I’ve had surprise clients, they’re hurting. You know? So it doesn’t cut it to, “Oh, I have my therapist appointment at 2:00 PM on Thursdays.”

But you might wake up on Monday and s- think, “I can’t get out of bed and go to work. I’m dying,” you [00:20:00] know? So that’s when my clients will text me and say, “Okay, Anna, like, I’m really struggling. I can’t get out of bed. Hit me with a mantra. Can we do a quick 10 minute call? I really need some encouragement. I woke up crying today.

I’ve got two small children I gotta get to preschool. Can we do a quick phone call?” “Yep, no problem.” So I’m on a quick phone call with someone. So I like to be a bridge A to B of somebody that really needs to, like, make a decision or make it through a distinct season. And then I want them, you know… What I tell people is, “Life is like this,” right?

And you’re not always gonna be in a dip. You’re gonna come back up here. But when you’re in a dip, you really need help to, I think, to make it through with more grace, ease, and peace. Why not have a guide or somebody that’s really in your corner that gives you their personal cell phone number and sends you podcasts or books that you need to listen to?

At this point, I have so many recommendations of resources based on where you are in the process, based on if you were the leaver or the one getting left, based on if you’re trying to save your marriage, if [00:21:00] you’re dating after divorce, all these different things. So I have all these things that I provide for people in addition to, we do one hour a week together.

But my husband, who’s a therapist, he does a, a tight one hour with somebody, and he’s all in. He’s got ADHD, so he’s wonderful ’cause he hyper focuses. But the minute that call’s over, he’s gone. His mind is gone. It’s onto the next client. It’s onto me. It’s onto whatever. Whereas I send a follow-up email and I’d say, “Okay, Jonathan, here’s the three things we talked about.

This is the podcast you need to listen to. I’m gonna have you do these, you know, meditation that I want you to start doing every day, ’cause you’re so stressed and your, you know, blood pressure’s out the roof. So I need you to start doing this.” So I send, like, action items. I’m a much more tactical coach that has a lot of follow-up.

And, you know, I grew up in business, and the work I did is I’m very value-oriented. I want it to be a high ROI if you work with me. I want you to feel like every session is packed with value. You know what your homework is in between now and our next session. And, you know, if you’re at a [00:22:00] soccer game on a Saturday and your soon-to-be ex-husband brings his affair partner to the soccer game to watch your little daughter play, and you had no idea that was coming, I want you to go to your car and text me and say, “Hey, I’m in crisis.

So and so brought the affair partner. Like, can you do a quick call?” Yep. Here we go. You know? Like, I like being available to people in these seasons where they really need help, and they don’t always wanna call their mom, their sister, their neighbor because sometimes your mom, your sister, and your neighbor haven’t been through a divorce.

They don’t know what it’s like.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, if you, right. And if, and, and despite the fact that I have participated in thousands of divorces- … I don’t know what it’s like. Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean, I’ve got some general idea, but-

Anna Howerton: Yeah …

Jonathan Breeden: but, you know, I’ve been married for-

Anna Howerton: Right …

Jonathan Breeden: 19 years, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so, so it’s, so I don’t truly know. Yeah. You know what I mean? Nobody’s ever came to me and said, “You’re only gonna see your kids 50% of the time.” Right.

Anna Howerton: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Yeah. You know, I see my kids every day. Right, right. So, so I, I do have empathy for people for what they’re going through

Anna Howerton: Mm-hmm

Jonathan Breeden: as do the attorneys that are here

Anna Howerton: Mm-hmm

Jonathan Breeden: and the people who… [00:23:00] work here, and some have been through it, and some haven’t- … and, and stuff like that. But I mean, it’s, it, it really is difficult. And but the one thing I try to point out to people is, you know, and I even say this when I make little welcome videos when we’re hired, is we’re gonna help you get to the next phase of your life.

Because divorce is not the end of your life. You got a whole nother life to live.

Anna Howerton: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And I think people think that it’s the end, and it’s not.

Anna Howerton: It’s not.

Jonathan Breeden: Whether you wanted it or not, it’s not the end.

Anna Howerton: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: We got 30, 40, 50 more years to live.

Anna Howerton: 100%, right.

Jonathan Breeden: You know?

Anna Howerton: Right.

Jonathan Breeden: What do you do to help people with that? Like make them realize, like, yeah, it’s collapsing now but we got a whole nother life, and I think that’s been your, mainly your focus. It, you know is this future.

Anna Howerton: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: So talk about that.

Anna Howerton: That is one of my favorite parts, because when I work with people, they are very sad. I mean, I talked with a client this morning that was just like, “I am just waiting for time to pass. I’m like, “Do you hear yourself? That is so depressing.” Like, I just wait [00:24:00] until night that I can go asleep and escape, and then wake up for the next day, and I wait till I can go to sleep. So I work with people who are so, so sad and in deep, deep grief, and my job is to be this beacon of light for them, and to help them start when they’re ready.

I mean, this person is really down in it, but you know, you start to see these breakthrough glimmers of light where they can start to think, “Okay, I can pick up my head.” Okay, so when you’re ready to start thinking, what would you like your life to look like? You know, do you wanna dive back into the dating pool at some point?

And if you do, it’s actually really fun to start to envision what would the next partner look like. I make my clients who are going through or recovering from or dating after divorce get really, all of my clients have to write a crystal clear list on what they want. I want everything, every little detail, you know, and I make them mostly focus on personality and not physical, ’cause I’m not as interested in that, although I let them put that on there if they want.

But you know, there is this opportunity, [00:25:00] if it is your choice or not your choice, to recreate your life, re-envision your life. Okay, what do you want it to look like? We’ve got a brand new canvas here. What do we want the paint strokes to, to look like? Let’s go ahead and, and draw this out, because that is what I did.

That’s exactly what I did. I wrote out exactly what I wanted in my next partner, in my next husband, and it was so helpful for me in dating and engaging with men and thinking about dating. Okay, like I’m not settling for anything less than this. Like, I had a marriage end. I’m very good friends with my ex-husband.

We were college sweethearts, started dating when I was 19 years old, so we’ve lived a lot of life together. But you know, it’s a deep sadness for any marriage to end, but the brilliant silver lining is that you actually get to pick again with maybe a lot more knowledge on who you are now. I didn’t know who I was at age 19.

I’m 42. That was a long time ago, you know? I was a totally different person by the time I was 32, and I’d had more time to kind of pull off [00:26:00] layers of programming that I’d gotten from my children, the way… I mean, sorry, my parents, the way I’d been raised. Like, you know, people in my life that I, things I just never sort of questioned on my own.

I’d, I’d been able to have that and really figure out who I was. So I help people figure out who are you, because you know this, a lot of people lose themselves-

Jonathan Breeden: Correct

Anna Howerton: in a marriage.

Jonathan Breeden: Correct.

Anna Howerton: So I first, the first step is actually what, what does Jonathan want? What, what lights up Jonathan? Like, what do you think would Be an awesome life and, and what do you think are the most important things to you if you decide to re-partner and remarry, and what would make you really pumped to think about having in a partner?

And then you get to re-envision and then recreate a brand new reality for yourself, and that’s the fun part. I mean, when I get texts and voice notes from clients that are like, “Oh my gosh, I just had this amazing date. It was the best sex of my life.” You know, all these kind of things. I’m like, “That’s amazing.

That’s awesome.” Like, “I’m so happy for you.” When, you know, two months ago they’re sitting on my couch crying thinking, “My life is [00:27:00] over.” And then I get these amazing texts where they just feel like they’re on cloud nine, and they can see the, the light at the end of the tunnel, and they can see that, yeah, I know this ended, it was deeply sad.

You’re gonna continue to grieve it some, but then, you know, you get injections of light and life that really do… it’s hard to anticipate that they’re there when you’re in the sadness and when you’re in the dip, but that’s why it’s awesome to work with someone like me or anyone else who’s been through it and is on the other side or on the upside now, because I do get to be this beacon of light of like, “You can have an awesome life again.

You can start all over. You can take a left turn, begin again, and it can actually be better than you thought.”

Jonathan Breeden: Well, and you’re, you’re, you’re absolutely right and, and we’ve seen it get better and, you know, you’re living proof of that. The other thing that we’ve noticed, as you talk about losing yourself, you also have- A lot of women, and men too, that have been in these relationships, particularly if there’s been codependency

Anna Howerton: Mm-hmm

Jonathan Breeden: or abuse, a [00:28:00] lot of verbal abuse. There’s a lot more verbal abuse than physical abuse in the world. And verbal abuse is just as bad

Anna Howerton: Yes

Jonathan Breeden: and people don’t realize it’s abuse because they’re not, it’s not physical abuse.

Anna Howerton: Mm.

Jonathan Breeden: But they have to regain some self-confidence.

Anna Howerton: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: You know? And, and, and the self-confidence problem probably starts in childhood.

Anna Howerton: Right.

Jonathan Breeden: And, and because if they don’t, they’re gonna end up in the exact same

Anna Howerton: Mm

Jonathan Breeden: abusive, codependent relationship they just left because there is a part of the person that believes the negative things that the codependent abuser

Anna Howerton: Mm

Jonathan Breeden: is telling them.

Anna Howerton: Yep. Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: And it doesn’t matter how successful you are on the outside or how much education you’ve had or your career or any of that, if you believe in the back of your mind that you’re-

Anna Howerton: Not worthy

Jonathan Breeden: a, a dog and not worthy and ugly

Anna Howerton: Mm

Jonathan Breeden: and terrible and all that

Anna Howerton: Mm

Jonathan Breeden: because that’s what they’re telling you to control you, then you’re gonna have a hard time. And if you don’t get a handle on that, whether through coaching

Anna Howerton: yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Mm-hmm …

Therapy domestic violence counseling- … Harbor [00:29:00] Interact Safe House, any of those places-

Anna Howerton: Right

Jonathan Breeden: you’re gonna end up right back in the exact same situation again. And, and I have seen… And we don’t get a ton of repeat customers a year, but the repeat customers we get are often for domestic violence protective orders.

Anna Howerton: Oh, gosh.

Jonathan Breeden: I got you one. You got, I got you out of that relationship.

Anna Howerton: Mm.

Jonathan Breeden: Two years later, you’re back.

Oh. You’ve been abused again. Yeah. Now I have to get you another domestic violence protective order.

Anna Howerton: Oh, God.

Jonathan Breeden: I mean, and so that’s not, unfortunately- Yeah … that uncommon.

Anna Howerton: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: So I mean. So what do you do to help build up the con it’s often women.

Anna Howerton: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: But sometimes men. What do you do to help build up their confidence so that they, especially if they’ve been in one of these abusive, codependent relationships.

Anna Howerton: Right.

Jonathan Breeden: So they don’t get into another one?

Anna Howerton: Right. So actually, I literally yesterday on my social media posted a client testimonial from a beautiful, very successful young woman who is in the process, they separated. And it’s a kind process luckily, so it hers was not it was not abuse.

It was not an abuse situation, but more just kind of a slow neglect. And so her confidence has been [00:30:00] shattered. And so actually the testimonial I pass posted last night is her saying, you know, “My self-confidence was down here. Like, I just felt devastated. I couldn’t believe I was gonna walk away from this marriage.

I felt unlovable. I felt unlovely.” And I mean, you see this woman and you’re like, how in the world does this woman not feel

Jonathan Breeden: right

Anna Howerton: worthy, you know, she’s amazing and beautiful and so smart, incredible job. And so what I start with a client like her is to say, “Okay, like, I want you to write out what are your current beliefs?” I’m not worthy, I’m not beautiful, I’m not a good mom, I’m a piece of shit, whatever the person said or what however they made you feel. Okay, cool. Now we’re gonna write a new belief. Okay. I’m really smart, or like, I’m actually very beautiful, or I’m an amazing mom. And then I need you to take the limiting belief away, and I’m gonna have you take those, you know, 4 to 10 new beliefs that we just came together, and I’m gonna have you take it on a piece of paper.

I want you to stick it on your wall, and I want you to look at it every day, and I want you to say those statements because what we need to do, I need you to start looping your neural, neural [00:31:00] pathways in your brain. I need you to start looping on a new story. So I even have some of my statements, and I did not.

I was not in an abuse situation at all, but you just Anytime you have a life quake, you just start to question yourself. So mine was not induced by my ex, it was just myself even. Like, my own self-shame or like, “I can’t believe I got divorced.” And so I still have up in my bathroom mirror a piece of paper where I wrote out new things to help my mind loop on to say like, “No, that’s not actually true, and I’m gonna live into a new narrative and a new story.”

So I do this with all of my clients. What are the limiting beliefs? What are the things that you’re saying that aren’t actually true? Let’s write new ones, and then that becomes your reality. This, this becomes your war cry. These become your mantras, and this is what I want you to start looping on.

Jonathan Breeden: Well, and it’s very important that you actually physically write it.

Anna Howerton: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: Because if you… It’s like, you know, and I, and I… Look, I, I go, you know, I, I go give speeches about this kind of stuff.

Anna Howerton: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: And I’ve a business coach and, you know, I… [00:32:00] Mindset stuff and all this stuff.

Anna Howerton: 100%.

Jonathan Breeden: But it’s the God’s honest truth.

Anna Howerton: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: If you physically write it

Anna Howerton: Mm-hmm

Jonathan Breeden: you’ve… you’ve brought it into the world. You’ve made a physical- … representation of your thoughts. You’re gonna be more likely to remember it, you’re gonna more likely to take action on it.

Anna Howerton: Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Breeden: I’m not talking about a note in your phone. I’m not talking about a thing, I’m not talking about a voice. I’m talking about

Anna Howerton: Mm

Jonathan Breeden: take a pen- … and physically write it.

Anna Howerton: 100%.

Jonathan Breeden: There’s something about that- … and your brain and, and bringing it into the world. Oh. You’ve now manifested that-

Anna Howerton: Yep …

Jonathan Breeden: and it’s more likely to be completed if it’s a task- … more likely to be believed if it’s a positive statement. And you do, because, because you get in your head and your head’s like an echo chamber.

And if you don’t change, if you don’t change the narrative, you’re gonna stay in the same echo chamber.

Anna Howerton: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: The brain is so powerful.

Anna Howerton: Oh, yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: It is e- … for all the, for all the good it can do, it can do just as many things bad-

Anna Howerton: Yes. Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: from the inside the same person.

Anna Howerton: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: Go read the book Think and Grow Rich.

I mean, there’s a whole book about that. And just, you know, if you could think about it, you can bring it [00:33:00] about, right? Yeah. What you think about, you bring about. Right. If you write it- Yeah … you’re gonna bring it about. And, and I think people have lost that, as we don’t physically write anymore.

Anna Howerton: I’m with you. I make that- Right? … physically writing.

Jonathan Breeden: Right. You have to physically write.

Anna Howerton: I’m with you. Yep.

And so another thing is a gratitude journal. So every single day

Jonathan Breeden: Absolutely

Anna Howerton: i wake up, The very first thing I do, I get my, you know, I put chlorophyll drops, electrolytes in my one juice, and then I got my hot coffee, and I literally like f- I write the date and five things I’m grateful for.

Like tomorrow morning I’ll say, “I’m so grateful I did a podcast with Jonathan Breeden yesterday. That was so fun, da, da, da.” I usually do whatever happened in the last 24 hours. But sometimes it’s, “I’m grateful for my kids. I’m grateful for my husband. I’m grateful for my work. I’m grateful for my clients.”

Sometimes it’s the same things over and over, ’cause sometimes people are like, “How do you do five new things every day?” Sometimes I don’t. Right. It’s the same things, but that’s another tip for somebody who’s had shattered self-confidence. Because then if you’re not feeling good about yourself, then you’re not feeling good about your whole world, and divorce feels like your whole reality, but it’s not.

I’m grateful for the roof over my head. I’m grateful I have a car. Maybe you have a job, [00:34:00] maybe you have two beautiful kids, maybe you have parents who are supportive or a friend group, or, you know, the sun is shining today. There’s always a way to flip the script, right? To tell yourself a new story even when you’re in deep grief and sadness.

Could you start your day by anchoring into five things that are actually going for you?

Jonathan Breeden: Right. And if you start a gratitude journal, and I’m go- and I’ve, I’ve sort of done this and then I stopped, but I’m starting again-

Anna Howerton: Okay …

Jonathan Breeden: next week. By the time this podcast runs- … I’m gonna say it and everybody’s gonna listen to it.

I’m gonna start doing it again. You will start to look for the positive in the world, right? Because you know you’re gonna need to come up with some gratitudes. Right. And you’ll start to look at all the things positive, because you can look at the world as positive or negative.

Anna Howerton: Yep.

Jonathan Breeden: But if you’re looking for the positives, they’re out there.

Anna Howerton: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: They’re everywhere. Right.

Anna Howerton: Right.

Jonathan Breeden: And, and, and I think it’s good that you point out that you can write the same gratitudes more than once. Sure. Sure. And, and I think that’s important. Golly, we could talk all day. All day. This is fascinating. I’ve really enjoyed this but I’m not Joe Rogan, and I don’t think people will listen for 90 minutes.

So how [00:35:00] can people reach

Anna Howerton: Just manifest it, Jonathan …

Jonathan Breeden: I know, right? I know. How can people reach out to you if they’re interested in your program? Your website’s got a ton of information.

Anna Howerton: Yeah.

Jonathan Breeden: Ton of videos, lot of stuff, you know, that kind of stuff.

Anna Howerton: Thanks, Jonathan. So I’m on all the social medias at Anna Howerton, @annahowerton_. So I’ve got Instagram, YouTube Facebook TikTok. But my website is just my first and last name, annahowerton.com, so you can reach out and do it. I do free strategy calls, so I’m really open. I wanna help people. I didn’t get into this career to, you know, make $100 million every year. I, I genuinely wanna help people, so I always offer a free call to see if I can help, ’cause again, I’m about value.

So I don’t wanna work with somebody if I don’t think I can genuinely help them. And sometimes people can’t afford my services, which is okay. I’ll do a free call. I’ll say, “Hey, get this book. Listen to this podcast. Read these things. Follow these people online. They’re gonna have a ton of great content, and they do a ton of free stuff.”

So I’d love to connect with anyone who is in a place where they could use help. I’m happy to do that free call. My [00:36:00] Calendly link is on my on my website.

Jonathan Breeden: Yeah. Well, and while I know your office is in Raleigh

Anna Howerton: Yeah

Jonathan Breeden: you do help people from Johnston County.

Anna Howerton: Yes.

Jonathan Breeden: And you’ve been a big big h- help- help to me just talking to you and getting to know you over the last few weeks.

But I will ask you the people you met in Johnston County and stuff, what do you love most about Johnston County?

Anna Howerton: I love that the people here, it’s just salt of the earth, you know? Like, I’ve lived I was born in North Carolina, but I’ve lived in eight states, so I’ve had eight state licenses, one twice.

And so when I’m in North Carolina, there are certain places that you are just like, “These are salt of the earth, awesome North Carolinians,” and that is what I love about Johnston County.

Jonathan Breeden: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. I have to agree with her on that. So anyway, we’d like to thank Anna Howerton a divorce coach, from coming on and being our guest on this week’s episode of The Best of Johnston County.

If you have questions about, you know, if you, if you need coaching, you need help, reach out to her. If you’re thinking that you wanna know what your legal rights are, reach out to me here at the Breeden Law Office at [00:37:00] 919-661-4970. Everybody wants to help you, right? Anna wants to help you. The Breeden Law Office wants to help you.

There’s a lot of help out there, but you have to go and seek it out. It’s not just gonna come to you. There’s tons of information out there. You’ve gotta know what your rights are and regain control of your life. I have a free book that you can download on my website, Divorce Law in North Carolina: What, What You Need to Know at breedenfirm.com.

You can come by my office here at, at 4042 behind the Food Lion, pick one up. Or if you call us or email us, we’ll mail you a free copy of the book, ’cause we want you to know what your rights are. The entire book is about retaking control of your life. That’s what Anna’s helping you do. That’s what we’re trying to help you do.

That’s why I wrote the book I wrote, and I themed it that way. It’s why our motto here is, “Be the hero of your life story,” because we want you to do that, and the only way to do that is to regain control. As we mentioned earlier, please like, follow, subscribe to this podcast wherever you see it, whether it be on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, [00:38:00] TikTok, X, Or any of the other social media channels, Best of Johnston County podcast.

Tag us in your Instagram stories, Best of Johnston County. Give us a five-star review down below. Reach out to Anna, reach out to us if you’re having problems in your marriage or in your relationship, or you’re looking to date again, definitely reach out to her. We can’t help you with that in the Breeden Law Office.

Until next time, I’m your host, Jonathan Breeden

That’s the end of today’s episode of Best of Johnston County, a show brought to you by the trusted team at Breeden Law Office. We thank you for joining us today and we look forward to sharing more interesting facets of this community next week. Every story, every viewpoint adds another thread to the rich tapestry of Johnston County.

If the legal aspects highlighted raised some questions, help is just around the corner at www. breedenfirm. com.